22 April 2012

Weaver v. Isoscelese

Lately I've been reading yet again how someone is "all Weavered up" or "argh, that teacup is just so wrong" on ye olde intertubes.

When my facebook feed get a picture of "improper or dangerous grip techniques" and it includes the teacup as "unstable, unable to control recoil" I just want to grab a gunsnob by the lapel of their shirt, totally fuck with their OODA loop by headbutting them in the nose and then see how long it takes them to get into an approved isosceles stance.

Grip, stance, caliber, all that goes right the hell out the window in a fight. Hell, any martial artist who has been in a real fight knows that technique is the first thing out the window. Kinda like "fire control" goes out the window your first engagement. It takes a while to learn to slow down and think through the situation.

A little history on "The Teacup" is in order. Way back when the Army wore olive drab and the NRA pistol competitions were conducted with a 32 caliber revolver, the teacup came into being as a marksmanship technique. It must have done ok as some of those old shooters went to combat multiple times and came back ok. I wonder if Alvin York was grilled until every nuance of his shooting technique with a 1911 was registered and recorded for posterity (for the record that didn't happen).

As an example of why criticizing other folks shooting style is stupid... You don't see Carbine Class Ninjas shouting at High Power Competitors that "yer doing it wrong!" because it is obviously NOT doing it wrong, simply different stances for different sports. I mean seriously, who ever heard of putting on a special coat, getting all slung up before a fight? But no one argues that the skills learned shooting High Power aren't applicable in combat. After all, in Vietnam the first snipers were chosen from the ranks of competitive riflemen.

The teacup works. It doesn't work as fast as a straight up isosceles, but if you are shooting bullseye at distance it works fine (and if you really want to make your first round a precise hit, it might not be a bad choice). And if you do end up in a fight, then the point is survival, not to use someone else's idea of an approved technique.

Now, if someone wants to shoot accurately faster at halitosis distances and pays a professional trainer to help them achieve that goal, by all means good for them. I suspect they'll end up using the isosceles technique and becoming proficient with them. That isn't to say the 50 year old gal who has been shooting the same 38 special using a teacup technique for 40 years is wrong. As the bullet flies through the air it doesn't care if it was shot from someone using a particular technique.

Seriously folks, Weaver V. Isosceles has jumped the shark, fallen into the tank, been bitten to shreds, and is now a zombie corpse desperately in need of a headshot. Whether the headshot comes from someone using a Weaver or Isoscolese stance doesn't matter.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

Shsssssh!

I'm no expert. Experienced, but hardly an expert.

That said, each individual needs to find a stance/hold that works for him/her. If it works, its not wrong!!

MAJ Mike

Guffaw in AZ said...

Linking and adding.
Thanks.
gfa

Gun Shy Tourist said...

Here is a 'strong defense' for the Weaver stance:

http://blog.robballen.com/2012/03/16/p5481-in-defense-of-the-weaver-stance.post

Anonymous said...

"The Experts" all said...
... that a steam engine would obviously burn a hole through the boat bottom, and it would sink.
...that train travel was foolish, because the friction of travel at greater than 40MPH would cause a person to spontaneously burst into flames.
...that one quick thumping of those Damn Yankees/Dirty Rebels at Bull Run would end the American Civil War.
...that the Titanic was unsinkable.
...that with the close relationship between Britain and Germany in 1914, war was impossible.
Et cetera, ad infinitum.
Doubtless, some martial geniuses opined that no one could defeat the Greek phalanx, and that mere barbarians had no chance against the mighty Roman Empire.

Boot Camp Logic Rule 1 was always:
If it sounds stupid, but it works,
it's not stupid.

Either pull your pistol, or whistle "Dixie".

Regards,
-Aesop

Toaster 802 said...

If your using armor, you had better be using Isoscelese.

If no armor, use what works best.

Galt-in-Da-Box said...

"PERVERSITY Is Our Strength" - the "enLIEtened" CULTure by which WestCiv is being ruined through its own white guilt:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133427/100-000-women-undergo-brutal-sexual-mutilation-illegally-Britain.html

Sanders said...

Yeah, and I'm not supposed to be able to hit anything by point shooting from the hip, either.

Lord save us from the "experts".

Matt Kaufmann said...

"Grip, stance, caliber, all that goes right the hell out the window in a fight."

Stance doesn't matter much at all. Caliber matters less than making effective hits. But, it's only partly true in terms of grip. Much of it depends on how often a shooter trains and how they train.

But, even if we assumed grip didn't matter at all, it doesn't mean that somebody should train to do something wrong or even less than optimal when they're practicing. That's only setting them up for using that same incorrect or less than optimal technique when they do act on their training.

Within reason there is no right way to do things but there are a whole lot of wrong ways. Lot's of folks think old school = wrong. It's not. It may be less than optimal but it's not wrong. Teacup is "old school". And, I wouldn't necessarily recommend that somebody change their "old school" technique if they'd been doing it for 40 years. :D

And, Weaver vs. Isosceles is much like chocolate vs. vanilla or 9mm vs. .45. Both are good choices for different reasons. Both are bad choices for different reasons. There simply is no way for us to get the best of everything without getting the worst of something. It all comes down to preference and results.

P.S. Great history on the "teacup" and great blog!